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  • Will There Ever Be Any LGBT Characters In Ben 10 In The Future In A Kid Friendly Way.

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    • No. The TV ratings in the USA are noticeably anti-LGBT. They can show a character's death on-screen, as they did in several Ben 10 episodes, and it'll be considered kid-friendly (TV-Y7). Show an LGBT character, however, and your show just got upgraded to PG-13, or even PG-17.

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    • The highest rating a Ben 10 show or movie can get to while staying kid friendly would be (TV-PG) or (PG) amd that would be the limit.

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    • Well, Steven Universe was able to get away with LGBT, and yet it is rated PG.

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    • Most Ben 10 DVD Volumes Released In The UK Are Age Rated (PG). I Agree Character Deaths Are Aloud, But LGBT Characters Aren't.

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    • Echoson wrote:
      Well, Steven Universe was able to get away with LGBT, and yet it is rated PG.

      If I'm not mistaken, Seven Universe focuses on a non-human, all-female species (doesn't really count if the entire species is what we perceive as a single gender, IMO; it's like having an entire species of purple people and saying that promotes racial equality), and, from what I could understand on Wikipedia and a couple other websites, has only heavily implied blatant LGBT interactions, but never actually shown them, as opposed to non-LGBT interactions.

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    • I guess you have a point there, I was just judging because there are two female characters that kissed on screen before, although it was not the lips.

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    • Kissing on the forehead/cheek can be used as a sign of platonic affection, so that's not really a big deal.

      Also, I edited my previous post a bit.

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    • Well it has been confirmed that Ruby and Sapphire are romantically attracted to each other, and the species can also come in a male body type, they just choose not too. (sorry for being geeky)

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    • Confirmed on-screen, or just by the producer? There's a big difference. Little kids won't go looking for that information online, and, let's face it, little kids are kinda dumb, so they won't notice the implications on-screen. Anyone who's re-watched an old cartoon knows there's a lot of stuff that has different connotations than a kid would understand.

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    • It does not matter whether kids understand what is being presented or not, even the character interaction between the two are romantic "the best part of unfusing is that I can see you". It is quite obvious that they are lesbians, and the producers even confirmed it (I would link you to the confirmation, but the user he was responding to has a swear word)

      EDIT: Also note that the original post said "representing LGBT characters in a kid-friendly way", whether they get it or not, it is still there.

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    • Echoson
      Echoson removed this reply because:
      Edited post
      07:59, March 12, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • It actually does matter. The reason most parents and organizations boycott and lobby to have anything LGBT-related labeled as PG-13 or PG-17 is to "protect the kids", as they call it (it's just the usual homophobia, but "protect the kids" sounds better than "I hate LGBT's"). Until that changes; until LGBT relationships and interactions are treated the exact same way as non-LGBT relationships (shown and confirmed on-screen, rather than heavily implied), there won't be LGBT representation. Not really.

      EDIT: You wanna know what's a kid-friendly way to show LGBT characters? The exact same way they show non-LGBT characters in a kid-friendly series.

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    • Cartoon Network ‘censored’ intimate lesbian dance from Steven Universe UK broadcast. Even Though Same-Sex Marriage Is Legal In The UK, Kids Shows Still Get Edited, Which I Think Is Disrespectful For LGBT People.

      The show’s queer fanbase is upset about this because, as a community that struggles with representation, it feels like they’re being ignored and erased.”

      I Think There Should Be More LGBT Representation In Kids Shows To Teach The Next Generation That There's Nothing Wrong With Being Gay or Lesbian.

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    • I don't want producers to force LGBT characters into their series, like they do with a few games and series (they retcon already-established non-LGBT characters to make them LGBT), but having a realistic proportion of LGBT characters, and treating them the exact same way as non-LGBT characters, is harmless, and will, in fact, help the series by appealing to a larger audience.

      The fact they'll censor some actions depending on who's performing them is discriminatory and only serves to harm the series in question.

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    • Kids Shows On Netflix Don't Need To Always Have The Same Restrictions Of What Can Be Shown On A Kids Show As They Are On The Regular TV Broadcast.

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    • Maybe Someday LGBT Characters Will Be Allowed In Kids Shows.

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    • Blaziken rjcf wrote:
      Confirmed on-screen, or just by the producer? 

      Both dude


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    • Carnegg wrote:
      Maybe Someday LGBT Characters Will Be Allowed In Kids Shows.

      Though they aren't too common, they're out there! Legend of Korra, Steven Universe, and a couple more have had great successes with it!

      Though I wouldn't bet on it being super prominent in the reboot. Then again, who knows!

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    • Legend of Korra only had hand holding at the end of the series though

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    • Shows Like Steven Universe, Adventure Time, Clearance And A Few Others That Has Had LGBT Scenes Edited or Removed And The show’s queer fanbase is upset about this because, as a community that struggles with representation, it feels like they’re being ignored and erased.”

      I Think There Should Be More LGBT Representation In Kids Shows To Teach The Next Generation That There's Nothing Wrong With Being Gay or Lesbian.

      The Legend Of Korra Is The 1st Kids Show To Feature 2 Female Characters To Become Endgame And The Legend Of Korra Comics Will Be Focused On Korra & Asami's Growing Relationship.

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    • Supersketch1220 wrote:
      Blaziken rjcf wrote:
      Confirmed on-screen, or just by the producer? 
      Both dude

      If you're referring to that dance scene, that's hardly what I'd call "confirmed on-screen". Ben kissed Julie and referred to her as his girlfriend. That's on-screen confirmation. An implied kiss is censorship, and for no good reason.

      EDIT: If you think I'm making a big deal out of nothing, consider this: when's the last time a non-LGBT relationship was treated in this manner in a kid-friendly series? The answer is "Never". Were non-LGBT relationships treated in the same manner, it'd be different, but it's only LGBT relationships that are treated like this. You can show an alien and an earthling kissing, as long as they're not the same gender, even if that alien is a purple slime monster or a three-eyed frog. However, decide to show two completely normal humans, who happen to be of the same gender, kissing, and get ready to have your kid-friendly series censored or have its kid-friendly status removed.

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    • I agree with Blaziken, It will be a long while for LGBT relationships to be accepted in a kid friendly show. The producers of Legend of Korra had already pushed the limits with a paring of Korra and Asami at the end of the show and it was not explicitly mentioned.

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    • For the record, I don't even care about relationships in action/adventure series. I think they should be eliminated completely. I don't watch an action/adventure series for the romance. However, if you are going to include them, then do it in a consistent manner. Don't censor one relationship because you don't like it and leave another intact because you do.

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    • Blaziken rjcf wrote: Confirmed on-screen, or just by the producer? There's a big difference. Little kids won't go looking for that information online, and, let's face it, little kids are kinda dumb, so they won't notice the implications on-screen. Anyone who's re-watched an old cartoon knows there's a lot of stuff that has different connotations than a kid would understand.

      I watched pokemon when I was 6, then I watched it again when I was 11/12 and realised that there was so much more than pokemon battles.

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    • technically LGBT representation could be considered PG, as Disney tried with Good Luck Charlie. However if you know how that story ends you also know america just isnt ready for it (death threats against the babies' actor). From a biological point of view, Ben changes gender everytime he turns into Big chill (genderless) or any plant alien (both genders, sort of)

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    • Aaronbill3 wrote: technically LGBT representation could be considered PG, as Disney tried with Good Luck Charlie. However if you know how that story ends you also know america just isnt ready for it (death threats against the babies' actor). From a biological point of view, Ben changes gender everytime he turns into Big chill (genderless) or any plant alien (both genders, sort of)

      People do not look at that, and that is nothing like LGBT

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    • 1 Of Bens Alien Transformations In Omniverse PIXIE Looked Female.

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    • Aaronbill3 wrote:
      technically LGBT representation could be considered PG, as Disney tried with Good Luck Charlie. However if you know how that story ends you also know america just isnt ready for it (death threats against the babies' actor). From a biological point of view, Ben changes gender everytime he turns into Big chill (genderless) or any plant alien (both genders, sort of)

      Unfortunately, the USA does appear to be the most backwards industrialized country when it comes to societal norms. Threatening a child actor for a role performed on the same show she's in is like being mad at your pet because you have leaky pipes. Threatening anyone, in fact, for being an unwitting part of something you don't like and they can't understand is just plain stupid. To be fair, they're also one of the youngest industrialized countries, so they're still playing catch-up.

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    • Carnegg wrote: 1 Of Bens Alien Transformations In Omniverse PIXIE Looked Female.

      You mean Pesky Dust, right?

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    • People do not look at that, and that is nothing like LGBT


      My point was more along the lines of: If Ben 10 wants to do it, they will. However it is unlikely CN would let them air it.

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    • Aaronbill3 wrote:

      People do not look at that, and that is nothing like LGBT


      My point was more along the lines of: If Ben 10 wants to do it, they will. However it is unlikely CN would let them air it.

      They wont do it. Do they want to lose their fans?

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    • for the intended audience of <10 years old, most of the audience wont care so long as (like most romantic themes would in Ben 10) LGBT themes are not the focus.

      anybody hating on Ben 10 for trying to portray LGBT equality would be ironic anyway, seeing how the omnitrix was (at least partially) created to promote equality amongst the citizens of the universe

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    • What makes you think kids don't experience romantic attraction? I've experienced it since before starting school. In fact, I don't know anyone who hasn't.

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    • not my point. my point is if you want romance you dont watch Ben 10. Ben 10 is an action show and, while romance is not out of place, it is certainly not what people want taking center stage over the usual action. like if there was an episode of UAF about Kevin and Gwen going on a date, and that was the primary plot conflict (with little to no action). Nobody would like that episode. What Im saying is that kids dont care about the difference between LGBT and straight relationships, so as long as romance themes arent prioritised the difference is neglegable from the audience's perspective.

      as always it is the parents who are the problem: those who believe that other peoples ideoligies are wrong therefore they shouldnt be allowed to exist in media. it would just be a repeat of the first interacial kiss on star trek. There is no reason to be upset but by golly will it rustle some jimmies.

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    • Unfortunately, experience tells me otherwise. Kids care more about romance than you think, and, if they're already struggling with their own romantic attractions, seeing those in a neutral light might help them realize that it's normal and overcome their struggles.

      I may be generalizing a bit, but that's been my impression from my LGBT friends, as well as some of the more... "hardcore" fans of a particular pair of characters (you know the ones).

      You're right, the parents are to blame. It's the "If I can't have it, nobody else can" mentality; basically presuming oneself to be the epitome of moral behavior, and the way everyone else should be.

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    • from my experience in school if you wanted romance you went to the disney channel. Though I see your point about support, I still feel romance as a major theme would be out of place.

      that being said, with the new 11 minute formula they could go the way of steven universe and have 'filler' episodes for character building. If that is the case I wouldnt mind seeing romance as a potential theme for episodes.

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    • I'm not saying romance should be a major theme (definitely not on my list of things I like about Ben 10, or any other series, for that matter), but its inclusion may be beneficial.

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    • Even Though Ben 10 Has Always Been A Action Show, You Still Need Romance In Some Shape or Form Weather It's Straight or LGBT. All Action Shows Need Balance.

      What Aaronbill3 Mentioned In Their Post Above About, The Omnitrix was (at least partially) created to promote equality amongst the citizens of the universe.

      Then Ben 10 Would Be A Perfect Show To Promote LGBT Equality On.

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    • I dont think anyone here is complaining about Ben 10 being a platform for equal representation, the major problem is how the audience would respond. I predict it to be as follows:

      internet: its so good to see Ben 10 being a progressive show of equality that anyone can enjoy

      parent groups in america: WHAT DO YOU MEAN NOT-STRAIGHT ARYAN* PEOPLE EXIST >:(

      '*'note: the word aryan is included to compare modern views by certain groups to the views of similar groups from the 40's, as well as exemplify how utterly stupid and outdated those views are. 

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    • I don't think any series should be used as a platform to promote equality because, let's face it, that'd be boring. One episode after another of people getting along may be tolerable/enjoyable for toddlers, but not so much for anyone who's started school.

      However, making your human characters in a manner consistent with human beings won't harm your ratings (although it may earn you some death threats from some of the more... "self-centered" crowd).

      The Nazi comparison is out of line, Aaronbill3. What they did is incomparable to the suppression of LGBT's in kid-friendly shows.

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    • WHOOPS actually I was comparing parent groups of now to parent groups of the 40's (yes nazis held aryan ideals, but parent groups of the 40's also held less strictly defined aryan ideals). I had actually forgotten that the nazis existed in the 40's, so I probably should have just said 50's to play it safe. What the nazis did was so far away from (and worse than) issues with LGBT representation in kids media that I hadnt even considered their existence. That was my mistake and for that I apologize.

      I think any media form that tries to promote equality would be better off doing so in a way where they recognize LGBT groups, without focussing on them. for example: did you know dumbledore is gay? no? thats because his relationship status was never relevant. I imagine Ben 10 doing it more with background characters holding hands or something, or a character mentioning their significant other. equality doesnt have to be boring.

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    • Promoting equality is one thing. Using a series as a platform for that is another thing altogether. I was saying that dedicating an entire series to showcasing equality is dull.

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    • Echoson wrote:
      Well, Steven Universe was able to get away with LGBT, and yet it is rated PG.

      Well Steven Universe might be funny but I only watched in Korean Language.

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    • Doesn't Aryan mean foreigner? Anyways, yes, parents are to blame, The society too. If someone discovers their homosexuality while watching the show, then the parents will protest to close down the show, or alteast the LGBT part. Because, they think that society would stay away and tease them. I have heard stories where people honour killed their brothers for being gay.

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    • Utkar22, that's not how it works. People discover they're LGB by living out normal lives and becoming attracted to other people. And the T's don't find out by watching TV either. I'm not sure how they find out because I literally cannot understand the terminology they use, but I do know it's not by watching TV.

      People oppose LGBT representation because they're homophobes. Anything else they might say is just their attempt to hide that. It's analogous to the opposition to having non-white people, or, before that, women, in any position of power. They opposed those people because they didn't like some inherent characteristic they had, but disguised it as something else. The usual go-to excuse is a "desire" to protect something (kids, "the nation", "society"), but the reality is always the same: bigotry.

      Aryan was the name of the so-called "master race" (no, not PC's) imagined/invented by the Nazis. The Highbreed thought the same thing about themselves.

      EDIT: OK, turns out the concept is much older than I thought. The term "Aryan" dates back to before the 19th century, and it appears to have been borrowed from a Sanskrit word that means "noble one".

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    • People get attracted to another person. They do not know if it is right or wrong. So if they watch it on T.V., they will think/know that it is not wrong.

      I read in my history book that it was used as old in the 2 or 3rd BCE. Aryan and Dasayus originally started as opponent musician or crafter, then Aryan came to be as foreigner and Dasayu became Dasa and meant slave.

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    • I think it might be TV-PG.

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    • Here's my take: If a character is LGBT, cool.  However, this should not be the defining fact of the entire character.  In fact, make it very subtle and hard to notice, not to denounce LGBT, but to make it less of a factor in what makes the character good than the accomplishments that the character has.

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    • SpideRicochet wrote:
      Here's my take: If a character is LGBT, cool.  However, this should not be the defining fact of the entire character.  In fact, make it very subtle and hard to notice, not to denounce LGBT, but to make it less of a factor in what makes the character good than the accomplishments that the character has.

      Kinda look more like a Hippie quotes.

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    • SpideRicochet that is a great idea, subtlety goes a long way.

      Megurinex what on earth do you mean by "hippie quotes" ? SpideRicochet is talking about writing and character development/personality. Do you even understand what is being discussed here Megurinex?

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    • SpideRicochet wrote:
      make it less of a factor in what makes the character good than the accomplishments that the character has.


      you put that into words better than I could. This is what I was trying to imply when I was saying romance shouldnt be a major theme, except you actually worded it correctly.

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    • Writing and characters development that's how people of Woodstuck do.

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    • No, that's just good writing, Megurinex.

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    • Blaziken rjcf wrote:
      No, that's just good writing, Megurinex.

      Oh okay sorry about that.

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    • I don't undestand this. Why the hell can't anyone be gay or lesbian if they want to? I mean, I'm straight, but people should be allowed to express themselves.

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    • Bigotry

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    • It's the old "fear of the unknown".

      For the record, however, nobody wants to be LGBT. You either are or you aren't. It's not a choice. If it were, almost no LGBT's would choose to be LGBT. Being LGBT, in the vast majority of countries, means either living a repressed life, or facing discrimination in daily life. In some countries, it's actually illegal to be LGBT, and it can earn you a death sentence. Nobody in their right mind would want to be LGBT under those conditions.

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    • Agreed with Blaz. Moreover, the society sees you as an outcast, and in some places, it is even illegal.

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    • Queen Elsa In Frozen 2 Might Be Revealed As Being A Lesbian, The rumors are rife that it is possible that “Frozen 2” might address LGBT community issues. However, nothing has been officially announced on the same. It is possible that not explicitly lesbian, but Elsa will tackle a societal issue. Chris Buck also revealed in the past that they are going to use “Frozen 2” movie’s international platform to address something very relevant to the society.

      “Frozen” movie’s popular song “Let It Go” and Elsa’s character development was a hit among LGBT community. Many fans believed that the powerful song “Let It Go” is Elsa’s way of coming out and revealing about her sexuality.

      Blogger Kathryn Skaggs pointed out that Elsa’s loneliness and need to be free about her power has a strong portrayal to LGBT community. She further noted, “Oh, and did you happen to catch the gay partner of the guy up at the lodge selling supplies to Hans, in the sauna with their kids? If you blinked, you probably missed it.”

      Meanwhile, the idea of Queen Elsa being a lesbian and embracing her homosexuality is already gaining momentum among fans. Many tweeted in favor of Elsa as a lesbian.

      “wait @lopezbobby how about y’all make elsa gay in frozen 2 since everyone and idina wants it and i can be the lesbian lover — lady lazarus (@whoismercutio) March 19, 2016

      “Also frozen merch is everywhere worldwide so her being a lesbian would be awesome — idiot (@pearlpis) March 18, 2016

      “Wake me up when we get a strong lesbian character in a relationship with another amazing queer lady and both stay alive — Commander Ōkami (@frozen_okami) March 4, 2016

      “concept: elsa from frozen is a lesbian — hannah (@colortroyeblue) March 7, 2016

      “So I just woke up and I thougt this was a pretty relavant picture #elsanna #frozen #lesbian pic.twitter.com/7DXPWCD7QI — Frozen Movie (@FrozenMOVlE) February 21, 2016

      “Am I the only one who thinks that frozen is like a metaphor of “coming out” as gay… Like, Elsa was a lesbian, and everybody was homophobic — Maggie (@maggieh2201) February 10, 2016

      “Anna and Elsa. Quite a lesbian vibe there for sisters. #justsayin #Frozen — Kaye Crawford (@TheKayeCrawford) February 7, 2016

      Disney's Done It Before With Good Luck Charlie, With Same-Sex Parents In 1 Episode.

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    • Carnegg wrote:

      Disney's Done It Before With Good Luck Charlie, With Same-Sex Parents In 1 Episode.


      Hey, Im pretty sure I mentioned that already. unfortunately that incident brought out the worst in people as a so-called 'mothers group' was very 'offended' by that episode. And it even resulted in death threats against the then-five year old star.

      If this were Disnery we were talking about, that woudln't be a problem, theyre progressive like that. However this is Cartoon Network, and they are no where near as progressive or confident.

      Whilst LGBT relationships are only a good thing to represent in the upcoming reboot, most of the world disagrees. North Carolina in particular. Therefore I draw upon the conclusion that whilst any human beings who possess the apparently rare characteristic of 'compassion for others' would like to see LGBT representation in the reboot, we are apparently in the minority, and it is not in CN's best interest to pander to minorities especially one as 'controversial' as this.

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    • All I can say is: don't force stuff on the non-LGBT or the LGBT communities. Let both aknowledge and accept each other and go their merry ways. No one needs to convert, send death threats (seriously, that's just SICK), or anything. If someone is LGBT, let it be. Same with those who are heterosexual.

      As for CN and LGBT, let's not get all over hyped or anything about it. Let's remain calm. If they put in some LGBT in, then they do. If they don't, they don't. I am pretty sure CN wants to avoid being a target of death threats and parents who want to sue. LGBT is still a rather controversial and touchy topic despite the progress made. It will also remain that way for a decade or two.

      As for my opinion, as long as it is done with tact, respect and not just for laughs, I wouldn't mind seeing a few LGBT side characters. Ben and Gwen are OBVIOUSLY too young to even think of romance maturely and/or seriously to even be made into LGBT characters (they will be ten for goodness sakes, I don't want to watch that). Then again, I'd like to have romance to a minimum. Romance is one of my least favorite genres.

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    • LGBT side characters for real.

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    • Derpyrebound, the problem is that the bigots perceive any insertion of LGBT characters to be "forcing", even if it's, say, an optional romance in an RPG (Mass Effect, The Sims) that won't trigger unless you (the player) willingly chases it, even though tailoring your character to your specifications is basically the hallmark of an RPG, or a character whose orientation only comes up once in a blue moon (just like in real life, where only bigots make a big deal out of it and spend 80% of their time talking about it).

      As for kids and romance, they experience romantic attraction as well. I don't see how being LGBT changes that, though I agree neither Ben nor Gwen should be made into LGBT characters, as per a previous post where I mentioned changing an already-established character to "be more inclusive" is just poor form.

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    • Me too,i wish they cancel that show or make it be in a different universe.

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    • I don't want them to cancel the show, we still haven't seen it in action. I just hope we might have some great animation (love it to have some awesome fight scenes) and character development.

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    • Utkar22 wrote:

      Blaziken rjcf wrote: Confirmed on-screen, or just by the producer? There's a big difference. Little kids won't go looking for that information online, and, let's face it, little kids are kinda dumb, so they won't notice the implications on-screen. Anyone who's re-watched an old cartoon knows there's a lot of stuff that has different connotations than a kid would understand.

      I watched pokemon when I was 6, then I watched it again when I was 11/12 and realised that there was so much more than pokemon battles.

      Could you please tell me how much more was change in the show of Pokemon than pokemon battles could you please tell me.

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    • Rexfan177 wrote: I don't want them to cancel the show, we still haven't seen it in action. I just hope we might have some great animation (love it to have some awesome fight scenes) and character development.

      Well at least it be in a different universe,it would be a sweet relief for the fan like me who don't like the reboot show of this at all,sorry for not liking it nor might be saying this after the image of him as 10 year kid that also looks different really disappoints me and made mad and upset,before seeing it I thought it must be him and his team doing their missions or something and then rook comes or something but after seeing this,I was wrong and wasn't happy, Rexfan177 I know you might be happy to be looking forward on this show but personally to me and most of the fans of ben 10 (or maybe it's just me) have their favourite childhood show ruined. By the way could someone tell me about LGBT?If it's bad it would to not show it to the kids,it's pretty bad and rude to show it,what blaziken said is is right about the kids experiencing romantic attraction and ben and gwen shouldn't be LGBT ect,young ones having attraction isn't half bad (i think) but loving the same gender is pretty terrible and definitely not a kid friendly status nor good for the kids.I still think they should cancel it or make it be on a different universe.Which show of ben 10 do u like?

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    • The only damage LGBT causes children is when their parents push anti-LGBT propaganda down their throats, especially if the kids themselves are LGBT. It's as kid-friendly as non-LGBT relationships.

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    • Megurinex wrote:
      LGBT side characters for real.

      Well, the main protagonists (Ben, Gwen, and Max) as far as I know were never established to be LBGT and I am pretty sure no new main protagonists will be added in. So it is not a very good move to change their established characters, especially when it comes to die hard fans. This not just an LGBT thing, this is pretty much almost everything ranging from personalities to interactions. So basically, I am going off of logic and what we do know in this assumption.

      I am trying to word this carefully, and I am pretty sure I am failing. I am pretty much as tactful as Sheldon Cooper when it comes to heated controversy.

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    • Midhat.ali.79 wrote:

      Utkar22 wrote:

      Blaziken rjcf wrote: Confirmed on-screen, or just by the producer? There's a big difference. Little kids won't go looking for that information online, and, let's face it, little kids are kinda dumb, so they won't notice the implications on-screen. Anyone who's re-watched an old cartoon knows there's a lot of stuff that has different connotations than a kid would understand.

      I watched pokemon when I was 6, then I watched it again when I was 11/12 and realised that there was so much more than pokemon battles.

      Could you please tell me how much more was change in the show of Pokemon than pokemon battles could you please tell me.

      I said that i re watched it.

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    • A FANDOM user
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