Board Thread:Suggestions/@comment-4908075-20190413100016

{{Suggestion|Sometime ago, the Ben 10,000 who appeared in OV and OS was split by the Wiki into different characters because, and I quote, It didn't make sense that they are the same. I am here to argue that sense or no sense, the Wiki is supposed to represent the canon, verified, official information about Ben 10, and the fact is, that the Ben 10,000 we see in OV is the same person as the one in OS.

DJW
I quote Ultiverse from his suggestion post: No matter what Derrick said, there are a few reasons I think they can't be one and the same

I think that we should not "no matter what said". He's a crew member. He is providing information about the show. Whether we like the information or not, we must present it with all honesty. We are not the writers. We have no authority to change what we want about the show while presenting information.

And no, DJW is just an Art Director isn't nearly true. He was very much involved in the writing process, the concept ideas, everything the creative team did. Proof? Look at Chadzmuth's page. DJW is able to provide us details of how episodes were going to turn out and the script was changed etc. A lot many things he says can give concrete details about the show from the creator's perspective (just like Dwayne or Eugene or anyone). That's why disregarding his comment on Ben 10k is a stupid decision. If he says (and he says that multiple times and provides explanation) that OV Ben 10k is the OS one only, that's what the writing team and OV creators intended, not that he just felt like it. Like, maybe you may feel they are different, but the writing team at least intended them to be the same.

Also, DJW has stated once that aliens like Atomix and Toepick appearing in OV was his idea, and only he remembered those from OS. (link on their pages) Clearly he did more work on the show that just drawing.

Also,



If this doesn't speak for itself, I don't know what more proof can ever be sufficient. It's pretty clear that DJW didn't make that up that they are the same. They are the same.

Matt Wayne
Some people argue about what he said. All he said was that the future is in flux and can change (probably a prudent statement for any more future Bens in a future series that may not be the same guy, like Ultimate Ben)

Still, he hasn't explicitly stated the OV and OS futures are different, or even implied that. Not at all.

Logic vs. Canon

 * Gwendolyn Tennyson (Ben's Daughter) no more exists! OMG! Retcons are a thing. And UAF arguably made more than OV. Plus had it not been for Dwayne explicitly stating that that background character is Ben's daughter, anyone in their sane minds would have thought she is just a background character. If we can take one man's word against logic, why not another's?


 * Ken 10 doesn't make sense due to developments in AF-UA-OV. Gwen doesn't mention time spent with Kevin. Ben though Devlin 11 was Kevin. Of course it doesn't match perfectly. It's not like the creators knew the stories future series would have. But then, Ben never mentioned Feedback in AF/UA, despite it being an important part in his change of personality and even perhaps the reason of giving up the Omnitrix. Oh and hell, AF Ben said he hadn't worn the Omnitrix for 5 years, but he did in OV flashbacks when he was 11. So the things don't match up and that means OV is itself in a different timeline! Wonderful! /s Oh, and what do you think a hybrid of 10 aliens would remind Ben of? Of course, Kevin. (Ok, Aggregor is an option, but he's long history :p. But anyway, as I said, these kind of issues are expected to emerge and they do. Newer shows very often contradict what past shows have said (or what pop-ups in them have said (eg. Bezel)) but that doesn't mean they're in different timelines. They are just retcons. Plot-holes even, if you so wish to call it, but our job is to report plot-holes, not fix them.)


 * Cake changed timeline My friends. If we are separating the articles based on that, clearly, the Ben 10,000 in Ken 10 is separate from the one in Ben 10,000. The cake doesn't split OS and OV, it splits OS into two, if anything. So please, that's not an excuse.

Official Proof that OS and OV futures ARE separate?
No official proof exists which says that

Conclusion
I think we should maintain our Wiki's self-imposed standard of being the best, 100% verified source of information. We should not impose our head-canon. Even DJW knows how much controversy his statements create here because people don't shed their head-canon. Keeping the future in OS and OV separate would have made sense had we had no official confirmation that they are the same. But because we do, we aren't justified in separating them. Same as Ben's daughter, I guess. Had we had no confirmation that she was her, it would have made sense for us to assume it's a background character. But knowing that she is, having official confirmation, we must abide by it. In my eyes, separating the OS and OV future, despite confirmation, is nothing more than fan fiction. We are not the writers of the show. While they can mess with the continuity, "take what they like and ignore the rest" (quoting Matt Wayne), we cannot do the same. Or at least, we can, but we ought not to, if we are to stick with our claim of having 100% accurate and verified Ben 10 info.

Thank you Shocker

P.S. Voting ends 20th April}} 