Board Thread:Suggestions/@comment-4908075-20190413100016/@comment-5808884-20190419171411

Alright, so...

You asked for in-show evidence that the two Ben 10Ks are different.

So, for some reason you want it to be specifically from OV, since OS clearly contradicts your point.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ElAqHK4gi_E

1:40 for the cake moment "What is it?"

"Something I should have gotten Grandpa 20 years ago"

Aha, totally the true future for Ben Prime, yeah.

Anyway, apart from that cake point that has been discussed and discussed, there is more.

OS Ben 10K didn't have Arctiguana named until he was 30. He didn't name his aliens, but Ben Prime gave him the name himself. Same goes for Spitter as Ben Prime suggests "What do you call this one? Loogie Man? Spitter?"

Ben Prime name drops Arctiguana in his first reappearance in Hot Stretch, but when he's 30 he suddenly hasn't named him? Riiight.

Moving on to UA: The UA Ben 10K is clearly different from the original, even mentioning the OS version. He is also able to perfectly remember a conversation that occurred in the Rustbucket III 20 years ago from his perspective. (Note: This isn't debating any point, merely stating something for later).

Now, on to OV: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f7LpIvNaeok

0:15 for the interesting bit.

So, OV Ben 10K clearly remembers Skurd, later in the episode he also reminisces on the Tenn-Speed and Proto-TRUK.

My first point, to avoid any misunderstanding, is this: Both UA and OV Ben 10K can recall specific moments from their past that is relevant to the situation at hand, because they were/are connected to the Prime Timeline.

OS Ben 10K doesn't remember giving Max a cake (cause he didn't, he says so himself) and of course he hasn't had Arctiguana named when he unlocked him at ~11 like Ben Prime. He was never connected to the Prime Timeline in the first place. However, both UA and OV Ben 10K would remember giving Max a cake, because they were/are Ben Prime at some point.

Now, as for handwaving this in-show evidence as a retcon:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retcon

"Retroactive continuity, or retcon for short, is a literary device in which established facts in a fictional work are adjusted, ignored, or contradicted by a subsequently published work which breaks continuity with the former."

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/retcon

"A situation, in a soap opera or similar serial fiction, in which a new storyline explains or changes a previous event or attaches a new significance to it."

So, I'll focus on the bold words: Published work. It refers to something that is actually integrated in the show (since we are talking about a TV series)

New storyline: Again, something in-show.

So, @Echo.

No, we won't be considering From Hedorium to Eternity non-canon. It is part of the show, it contradicts established info...it is a retcon, simple as that.

Neither the mention of the change of how many years Ben was without the trix from 5 to 4 years nor the extra scene with Vilgax and his squid Monsters are non-canon. They are part of the show, they contradict established info...they are retcons.

Kevin being an Osmosian...part of the show for UAF, contradicts OS...retcon.

Rooters arc...A new storyline that contradicts previous info established in the show. Retcon.

OS Ben 10K and OV Ben 10K being the same...A crew member said so on an answering website.

Uh oh.

Not a storyline in the show, zero nods (absolutely no mentions of the events of Ben 10,000 and Ken 10 from OV Ben 10K or Spanner). It's not a published work in the show by any means.

The only mention of the events of Ben 10,000 in OV are by Ben Prime in Animo Crackers, where he mentions fighting Future Animo...

And that's all there is to it.

Trying to "think from the writer's perspective" will lead to assumptions. It's not a nod by any means. It's just a reference.

The two Animos being virtually the same doesn't contradict OS and OV Ben 10K being different. We know nothing of his future predicament or how he came to be this way. It would be speculation to examine further.

"The show is a manifestation of their intentions".

Well, then.


 * Zombozo's Cannon ended up sending him to Anur Transyl.
 * Zed appeared in The Frogs of War.
 * Verdona appeared in The Most Dangerous Game Show.
 * Ben's pink eyes from Fame mean something.

Huh?

Those weren't explored in the show?

But that's what the writers intended, am I right?

Not every single thing the writers intend is gonna end up on the show. You can't always get what you want.

An intention is not proof. It's not official.

All the stuff that we have been adding to the wiki from crew members *supplement* canon, not contradict it. And in case they do in some way, they are actually implemented in the show (Rooters arc, Derrick's Vulkanus clarification in the Ballad of Mr. Baumann)

There is nothing in the show that proves OS and OV Ben 10K are the same. On the contrary, there is in-show evidence that they are different.

The writer's intentions on the matter are empty contradictions, not retcons.

And since you care about writer authority, here's this:

https://archive.is/5fDvd

"Nothing's definite until we address it in Omniverse".

Nothing.

The writers did NOT address it in the show, therefore by Matt Wayne's words, them being the same is NOT confirmed.

https://archive.is/h4iHT

"The Internet is not a TV show"

Ask.fm is a website on the Internet, it's not the show.

Matt Wayne was the head writer for OV. Not an Art Director with some story input.

So, even though he *might* have intended for the two to be the same (not actually confirmed by him), that is not reflected by the show.

The show must always come first.

Not just my opinion, but also the head writer's.

If we wish to include only 100% verified info that are not contradictory and be as objective as possible, the two Bens must be kept separate.