Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-6527064-20150725002151/@comment-26200221-20151017133520

Stryzzar wrote: I brought that up because you said this: "Kevin shows what Ben could have become if he, like Kevin, wanted more." They were two sides of the same coin, and could have ended up in each other's shoes given the right circumstances.

I didn't say that. But with Kevin he wasn't a typical Ben villain, he was different, in the sense that he was a dark mirror. Unlike say Vilgax, I can never seem him turning since he's always been a power hungry world conqueror. Kevin was never pure evil, and only ended up that way due to the whole nature vs nurture thing. The reason they chose Kevin to side with Ben was because they are not so different, given the right motivation he won't stay evil. If you don't like how he teamed up with Ben, then fine. But I don't think Kevin would always stay a mindless psycho, they gave him a lot of depth and backstory behind why he was like that in the original series.

No you didn't say that, but my point was, who are you to say which personality is perfect for Ben other than your own opinion? People are allowed to like mature Ben, and there is nothing wrong with that opinion. He was still fairly immature in the final season, and kept up that childish bickering with Gwen all the way to the season finale. He was only serious on occasion, when there was major trouble, most of the time he was just "what cool new alien did I get?" "who should I turn into?" I had no problem with watching that Ben, but AF Ben was a really nice change. For me the main appeal of the OS was the concept of changing into aliens itself, and not so much Ben's personality.

Okay let me rephrase that, "I just don't agree you're against a Ben who isn't arrogant and cocky at all." I was starting to get a little annoyed by 10 year old Ben's cockiness, it's never a trait I found admirable in someone supposed to be a hero, and the sooner it's gone the better.

So just what was wrong with AF/UA Gwen? She was also the voice of reason, just without the bratty personality.

"Many, if not most, fans don't like and/or even hated the sequels because they lost the charm of the Original Series and the style that Man of Action incorporated." That is not true, the Ben 10 sequels have quite a large fanbase. Sure there are still plenty of hardcore original series fans who despise the sequels, I'm guessing you're one of them, but the sequels are far from universally hated.

I should've clarified, "going down hill" is also a subjective statement, not everyone hated the change. Look at the analysis on the tvtropes YMMV page for Ben 10: Alien Force. Just because Didn't you consider there were some viewers who weren't that big on the cocky kid with an alien superweapon, and were more appealed by the serious tone. I just don't like how you treat your opinion as facts that represent the entire fanbase.

But some villains were only made possible once Kevin became a hero, such as Darkstar. He's supposed to be the dark mirror to Kevin. I don't think they could have introduced Argit without Kevin either. I also don't think they'd be able to give Kevin so much backstory if he stayed a psycho with no explanation behind why he's a criminal.

Whatever, I don't care if Man of Action wasn't involved in the sequels. I'm not going to say everything they write is automatically master piece, I'll judge based on what I see.

Okay, maybe I wasn't clear enough with some of my explanations. You didn't say a lot of that stuff, but those were some of the implications I was getting. Like your assumption that everyone seems to hate the sequels, and original series Ben is superior and the one true personality for him. Also, you were the one who started the debate with me, I was just expressing a simple view. I totally agree with you, if fact I personally think that apart from the romances UAF improved on the original series.